Boys

May 11, 2006 on 8:48 pm | In *Polls |

  • Will shounen-ai turn you off enough to stop watching an anime?

This question obviously doesn’t apply to fans of shounen-ai, and is mainly targeted toward a male audience, since most females don’t have a problem with it.

The issue of shounen-ai themes in anime shouldn’t be a big deal since most such anime is dominated by the theme; if one does not like shounen-ai, one would not be inclined to watch an anime with any boys’ love spin, since that is the element that that particular series focuses on. Examples of this would be the ever-so-popular Gravitation or Loveless. Shounen-ai fans must face it—those anime have nothing going for them other than the ラブラブ boys action. That’s their principle gimmick.

But consider this idea. What if your favorite series contained shounen-ai elements? Imagine any good series with a little male homosexuality mixed in. Reito having a whole different reason for passing up a Mai buffet. Would that ruin the anime enough to plunge its popularity into despairing depths?

Or, to put it into a more tangible perspective: Would you stop watching Ouran High School Host Club if Haruhi never turned out to be a girl?

By the way, I don’t think I really need to mention this, but, please, don’t search for “yaoi” on danbooru. It would frighten even the fangirliest of fangirls. Unless you’re, like, really into that sort of thing. Really into. The selection is poor, anyway…

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  1. Would you stop watching Ouran High School Host Club if Haruhi never turned out to be a girl?

    Yes.

    It simply wouldn’t be the same series if Haruhi was a guy. Pretty much all the fun comes from Tamaki fawning over haruhi, the twins messing with her, and really her unique approach to all things. There is of course a little bit of the economic-difference used to flaunt at her, like with waving ootoro in her face or calling the Hescafe “commoner’s coffee” but that really pales in comparison to the real meat of the series:

    Playing with sexual boundaries, making fun of stereotypical yaoi characters, and the whole girl-masquerading-as-guy thing. It’s the pivotal point of the series, and without which you don’t have Ouran.

    Back to the topic of yaoi in anime, and does it drive me away? Yes, it does, and not because I’m a homophobe; but because yaoi characters are so god damn unrealistic. They just lack any sort of realism to them, they’re so incredibly exaggerated. It’s enough to make me want to puke, when these girls are fawning over some unrealistic model of something that really just doesn’t happen. actually the otaku girl character from France in Ouran really sort of sums up my opinion on that topic.

    Comment by James — May 11, 2006 #

  2. Male Haruhi? I’d hit it.

    Wait, no. What am I saying!?

    I’d still watch Ouran, but I think Gakuen Heaven is a little too much.

    Comment by Hung — May 11, 2006 #

  3. I wouldn’t watch Ouran if Haruhi turned out to be a guy. I practically only watch Ouran for Haruhi anyway, and I always find the “Twin Moments” to be extremely creepy. It’s not funny enough for me to watch gay guys hitting on each other.

    Yes, I’m a homophobe.

    But I would watch shows with only a little big of shounen-ai in it, like Ouran in its current form. If Haruhi turned into a guy, the whole thing would be a massive gay orgy.

    Comment by Lupus — May 11, 2006 #

  4. By the way, I don’t think I really need to mention this, but, please, don’t search for “yaoi” on danbooru. It would frighten even the fangirliest of fangirls. Unless you’re, like, really into that sort of thing. Really into. The selection is poor, anyway…

    It’s usually not the safest idea to search for anything on danbooru. When I would be like “I want a good My-Otome picture”, my search box would end up having to be like “my_otome -sex -futanari -loli -masturbation -50 other terms”

    Comment by jpmeyer — May 11, 2006 #

  5. I remember Yami no Matsuei. It was on TV and I thought it was a cool action flick. So my sister and I watched it for a while. Back then we hadn’t heard of yaoi anime on TV, so after 30 minutes, she turned to me and said, “Hey don’t you think these guys are damn gay?”

    “Yeah they are. Weird. This sucks.”

    *switched off TV*.

    In other words, Ouran is funny because of the exaggerated and comedic shounen ai, especially the twins’. But shounen ai meant to be taken seriously, like they expect us to be touched the boy A finally gets together with boy B, is a huge turn off.

    Comment by tj han — May 11, 2006 #

  6. I have absolutely no objection to gay relationships in anime, I just object to their unrealistic, cliched portrayal; I have much the same opinion whether we’re talking shounen ai or shoujo ai.

    Ouran thankfully takes the piss out of itself (and I’d still watch it if Haruhi wasn’t a girl, because she’s treated like a guy virtually all the time except by Tamaki) but shows like Gakuen Heaven which are just harem shows for girls aren’t worth watching because it’s predictable and stupidly written.

    Yami no Matsuei and Loveless, for example, have good strong plots and animation, and THAT’s why they’re worth watching, not because of blokes kissing. Something like Sukisho or Weiss Kreuz, where the animation and writing are pants, just aren’t worth the effort.

    Comment by BluWacky — May 12, 2006 #

  7. I liked both Gravitation and Loveless. But still i hardly watch any shounen ai series. Why?

    In some way shounen ai turns me off. Not in traditional “Ack, gays. Must, run.”, but more like amount of bishies. It’s so hard to find good series that focus only to two or three guys.

    I view shounen ai and shoujo ai same way, love between same sex. But unlike with females I find it’s much harder to think that male could be cute or attractive so impression is always less effective.

    Comment by Anga — May 12, 2006 #

  8. I’ll take a certain amount of offense to your statement about Loveless– as a fangirl who’s not into shounen-ai and watched the show and follows the manga purely for it’s other elements.

    Subtracting out all boy’s love portions of the show (and perhaps also the not-so-oft-mentioned fetish made plot-devices or ‘gimmicks’), it’s still a strong series. High animation quality, unique characterization, diverse plotlines– be they centered about solving a murder mystery, school life, magical battles, gaming, dual personalities— for Loveless, the list really does go on and on.

    I assume that the reason the male fanbase for the show isn’t particularly large is that they — as per your argument — see the shounen-ai, judge too quickly, and just drop it despite what they MIGHT say about false alarms like Ouran.

    And then they miss out on the lesbians in the second half. Aw.

    Comment by vulpecular — May 12, 2006 #

  9. Soooo, since I’m a woman, I can’t comment?

    Still:
    I always find the “Twin Moments” to be extremely creepy. It’s not funny enough for me to watch gay guys hitting on each other.

    You, Sir, have no taste. Whether you are a man, a woman or Tom Cruise, those boys are hot (and funny).

    Comment by eurys — May 12, 2006 #

  10. I once searched for yaoi on danbooru. I really regret it. Of course, I’ve come to regret searching for things as innocent as Zoids. Danbooru’s become a very guilty pleasure of mine.

    Comment by TL-chan — May 12, 2006 #

  11. Hmm, Yaoi is a difficult question.

    I for one am interested that it preceded yuri in anime, but yet yuri and shoujo-ai has far outstripped yaoi and shounen-ai in todays animes.

    I for one dont mind shounen ai, as long as it is subtext and not text (for example Toya and Yukito in CCS), but I have to say I think it did dampen my enjoyment of loveless a bit

    Guilty of being too damn heterosexual I guess

    Comment by Ix — May 12, 2006 #

  12. As a fellow with many gay friends, I find the general treatment of homosexuality in anime hilarious. You can always get a great laugh out of a Japanese gay joke because they’re generally not cruel or derogatory in my experience.

    I wouldn’t actively seek out yaoi unless it had a good story, because I’m not interested enough in romance for romance’s sake, just like I stay away for the boring series of misundertanding that passes for romance in anime nowadays. Where nowadays equals the last twenty years.

    Personally, I’ve got very permissive attitudes about many things, so I’m always surprised when in “this day and age”, freedoms that I take for granted are rallied against.

    Apropos of nothing, I’ve seen Brokeback Mountain. Twice. Damn near cried the second time.

    Comment by Alex — May 12, 2006 #

  13. Oh, as for Ouran High: it wouldn’t make any sense if Haruhi was a guy. The series would have to be majorly retooled, but I would watch it.

    Comment by Alex — May 12, 2006 #

  14. Oh come on, the real Ouran-related shounen-ai question is: exactly how much yaoi must the twins have watched to get their act down that good?

    That said, I’m a girl and I think it’s plenty hot, but (as other people have already said) it’s about the plot. And romance can’t entirely carry a story.

    (Except then you show me a weepy uke healing some stoic seme’s wounded heart and the fangirling starts up again, so…)

    Comment by Zanzara — May 12, 2006 #

  15. This is just me being a tool (like how I get annoyed when I’m filling out a form and the box says “gender” instead of “sex”), but shounen-ai/BL/yaoi has nothing to do with gayness. I read a paper in a journal once on Komiket and the writer noted that gay men are generally offended by shounen-ai/BL/yaoi because it has nothing at all to do with gayness.

    Comment by jpmeyer — May 12, 2006 #

  16. Well, it’s an idealised version of such a world for girls. I personally find it hilarious, but I can see where a legitimate gay person might take offence.
    None that I know have, though; the only complaint I’ve received is that Japan censors too much genitalia.

    Comment by Alex — May 12, 2006 #

  17. I’m female (that seems almost like the determining quotient of how I’m going to answer) and I’ve never minded BL in any anime or manga, so yeah, I won’t stop watching any series just because of that.

    That said, I also don’t actively seek out a series just because it has boylove. I’ve avoided watching Loveless for the longest time because I thought it was just gratuitous fanservice, what with the catboys and the losing ears business. But when I read a review of a male anime-blogger where he actually mentioned that Loveless was probably the best show that he’d seen that season, it made me want to try it out.

    But as Zanzara said a couple of comments above, there’s just something about a hot seme that just makes me go into fangirly mode in 2 seconds flat.

    Comment by Reika — May 12, 2006 #

  18. “Imagine any good series with a little male homosexuality mixed in. Reito having a whole different reason for passing up a Mai buffet. Would that ruin the anime enough to plunge its popularity into despairing depths?”

    I don’t think it will ruin it. I also don’t think Mai HiME is the best example since the abundance of girls will easily make up for any possibility of the hyphotetical male homosexual relationship being slightly annoying. :) And Ouran would make very little sense if Haruhi was not a girl but if it is as funny as it is now, I would watch even if everyone was as gay as possible, although I’d probably enjoy it a bit less.

    Comment by Matrim — May 12, 2006 #

  19. Wow, I think you should make a v2 of this post where girs would get to state whether they would pass on a series that smells like shoujo-ai. It would only be fair.

    Otherwize I am a girl, I watch BL (a lot), but I’d be the first to admit that apart from Loveless, most BL-animes are simple, plotless and the characters are poorly developed and with horrible personalities to begin with (I still think Shuuichi is a stupid brat that should have been hit by a truck in ep one of Gravitation, and not pull an Excel after that). Don’t ask why I am watching this I am still trying to figure that out myself, but watching them doesn’t make me blind to their many faults. So I don’t blame all those nameless guys out there who have prejudices against BL that are not based on homophobia.

    And even being a BL-freak I still think that Ouran would not be the same if Haruhi was male. But I’d watch it anyway, for different reasons though.

    I do hope you’ll make a v2 of this post.

    Comment by Alexis — May 12, 2006 #

  20. Here’s the perspective of a girl who does not particularly go for the shounen-ai or it’s more mature counterpart, but still squees whenever she says any of her favorite boys in anime insinuating anything mildly romantical.

    I have not ever really seen a complete shonen-ai series, and the only ones I have are the ones almost everyone has heard of (and you mentioned). I saw one episode of Gravitation and five of Loveless. Gravitation because I was curious and I just finding out about anime, and Loveless because it features catboys. As a matter of fact I was really hoping for Loveless to not go the shonen-ai route. I admit I would have loved to see this be a heterosexual anime if anything, because I thought it was beautiful and had wonderful accompanying music. Story wise it was not the greatest for me like the fangirls would like to have you believe.

    I though also love a fandom that is also considered not the best of stories and purely made for women. Saiyuki. I adore it and the homesexual innuendo in it I do not mind at all especially when it’s between Gojyo and Hakkai. That’s not the only one I read that has it off course.

    Let’s admit it ladies and gentlemen since when does an anime nowadays not insinuate something homosexual? Even those aimed at the younger audience let’s say Naruto and One Piece. It’s very common and I think if your an anime fan you have to learn to accept it.

    Comment by Lovely_ — May 12, 2006 #

  21. I wouldn’t watch Ouran if Harui was a boy. I’m not homophobic, and, since ancient times, gender-confusion has always been a source of inspiration for comedies/shows/dramas, in almost all cultures. I can say, simply speaking, that homosexuality does not disturb me TOO much, but if a show is homo-centered, I’ll drop it. I’m a quite simple man: I like women.When I watch a show I need to empathize a little with the protagonist, as we all do, I think. If he’s gay, I simply can’t, and the show becomes uninteresting to me.

    Comment by Wyk72 — May 12, 2006 #

  22. >>Alexis: I’m workin’ on it.

    Comment by Saria — May 12, 2006 #

  23. The hell.

    I see yaoi elements in pretty much any series.

    It’s gotten so bad I actually laugh at it.

    I even went so far as to suggest Kyon X Itsuki.

    orz

    Comment by DrmChsr0 — May 12, 2006 #

  24. Guy here. Hetero in case you’re wondering. My partial attraction to yuri is clear as just a few days ago for some reason I had a dream of Yoshino having her way with Yumi ^^0 (Which is odd as I’m not a Yoshino-Yumi shipper, much more Shimako-Noriko).

    On the other hand, I find shounen-ai totally fine, depending on how it is done. For example, I find myself at times semi-fanboy(girl?)ing the the Fuuma-Kamui, Seishirou-Subaru, Subaru-Kamui hints in Tokyo Babylon/X. But I won’t go specifically looking for shounen-ai, if its there cool, nor am I particularly interested in shounen-ai only series. Yaoi… er.. lets just say I’d spare my eyes the ‘consumation’ ^^00 If Haruhi F. were a boy and they still kept the feel and humor, I’d watch Ouran.

    I must warn people against thinking shounen-ai -> for girls and yuri -> for guys, because I know of quite a few girls who are quite into both shounen-ai and yuri.

    Comment by melange — May 12, 2006 #

  25. sorry for double post but.. btw… source for the pic? XD

    Comment by melange — May 12, 2006 #

  26. “Would you stop watching Ouran High School Host Club”

    Good question. I’m just gonna guess yes because of the fact that watched the series even though I did not know Haruhi was a girl and I was fully aware that it was full of bishies. But it’s just a guess.

    Comment by Os — May 12, 2006 #

  27. As an avid player of angsty, wacky-jappy RPGs, I’m kind of immune to shounen-ai. I’m so used to Nomura and Nojima’s dreamy bishounen love fests that I simple don’t care.

    I mean, who am I to say that Goofy and Sora shouldn’t be allowed to express their feelings? That is perfectly fine with me (ignoring the fact that bestiality is a felony in 17 states) as long as I have Kairi and Naminé.

    Likewise, Brokeback Mountain is still worth watching even if you are not interested in Gyllenhaall. Anne Hathaway♥.

    Comment by abq — May 12, 2006 #

  28. Image tags doesn’t work :(

    Goofy and Sora doing it:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/Voidler/avatar1938_3.gif

    Comment by abq — May 12, 2006 #

  29. I personally don’t care .. love is love, and a brilliant story, to me, would take huge precedent over the gender of the characters. Unfortunately, before I am acquainted with a story, I will do some judging based on the characters … I do have some hormones, after all ..

    I actually think the twins in Ouran are really adorable when they do their twincest act … and I’m completely straight (well, I’ve fallen in love 4 times in my life, and it’s always been with girls ..). The thing about Haruhi being a girl is that I really, really like characters like her (smart and tomboyish, but not in an obnoxious or violent way). Ultra-feminine bishoujo-game girls start getting annoying after awhile, and it’s so much more pleasant to have someone like Haruhi Fujioka around.

    But meh, if she were a guy, and the humor were just as good, I’d still watch it. The show is entertaining for plenty more reasons than just Haruhi, and I find romance entertaining, no matter what type.

    Comment by symphwind — May 12, 2006 #

  30. That picture at the top of the post is hilarious! I can deal with shounen ai as long as that is not the only draw, sorta like I can’t deal with too much yuri for yuri’s sake alone.

    Comment by Kabitzin — May 12, 2006 #

  31. DrmChsr0: Kyon x Itsuki would be twincest because they look so damned alike.

    Comment by Alex — May 12, 2006 #

  32. I fully agree with Wyk72. I have no problem with real life gays at all albeit I don’t know any personally. Though as others already said, shounen-ai in anime or manga has little to do with gays in real-life. Shounen-ai is rather a parody and in my opinion always targeted at girls, not gays. I think it’s really the counter-part of yuri which has little to do with lesbians and mostly made for men. It’s just a trick to deliver the double dosis of what the viewer desires. Obviously, I don’t care whether a fictional girl is lesbian or not. Otherwise, I’d have envy the male character(s) in straight shows which would be ridiculous. I just don’t care about those shows which are driven by shounen-ai because it’s just not my flavour. This has usually little to do with the shounen-ai itself but rather the plot or the art style.

    I also agree with Kabitzin, the picture above caught my attention immediately and is pretty funny. I don’t think it would work (for me) if you replaced the girl with a guy and the guys (she looks at on the screen) with girls. That would just be stereotypical.

    Comment by Chris — May 13, 2006 #

  33. I forgot: I voted with “Won’t watch” because it was the closest to my statement. It’s more “YAWN homos… won’t watch” than “EWW” as I wrote though.

    Comment by Chris — May 13, 2006 #

  34. Female here, not particularly a fan of yaoi - because as many people above mentioned, yaoi often portrays male behaviour unrealistically and can be an idealised fantasy of what girls want guys to do.

    That being said, I nearly stopped watching Ouran once I found out Haruhi was a girl. I’d actually had hopes for the show becoming a geniune look at guys developing feelings for each other realistically. And now it’s just some odd show in between.

    Comment by kaei — May 13, 2006 #

  35. >>melange: I got the picture from a “yaoi” search on danbooru. Incidentally, access to the source is forbidden. Here is the danbooru post with the picture.

    >>abq: You are officially the coolest heterosexual lolihentai ever.

    I’m glad a lot of boys seem to be open to the idea of shounen-ai as long as the theme isn’t the main draw. Especially since I’m in that boat with yuri. Excellent.

    Comment by Saria — May 14, 2006 #

  36. Brokeback Mountain is still worth watching even if you are not interested in Gyllenhaall. Anne Hathaway♥.
    Gimme Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams!

    Actually, when I think about it, I stopped watching Mai-Hime (and didn’t watch Mai-Otome) partly because of the lack of (interesting) male characters. So it goes both way.
    I’m terribly picky and I prefer more mature and straight relationships (see Spike and Julia in Cowboy Bebop or Haru and Rin in Fruits Basket).

    Comment by eurys — May 14, 2006 #

  37. One of my favorite animes (OVAs) of all time is Magic User’s Club. There’s definately some shounen-ai (even if one-way) going on there, but it’s still a good show. Well they didn’t exactly go all the way so maybe that’s different.

    Comment by Epi — May 15, 2006 #

  38. I found where that pic came from… its from an ero-game by a company called Heartbring. A small version of the pic can be found here: http://hrb.jp/bring/01_touji/ex_14.html (this page is fairly work-safe, can’t say the same for the rest of the site though)

    Comment by melange — May 20, 2006 #

  39. […] This post is sparked off by a post at Sama Zama: Boys' Love: Yo-go or No-go? where he asked whether you'd stop watching if Haruhi never turned out to be a girl. To be honest … I will. Not because it's too shonen-ai as a result, but because where's the fun of it? […]

    Pingback by Anime Bento » Blog Archive » Boys’ Love, anybody? — May 21, 2006 #

  40. I still will…

    Probably cause i’m into shounen-ai as well…

    But hey, I like Ouran Host Club cause of the comedy…

    It’s funny when Tamaki comes hugging Haruhi all the time and being so protective, and the Twins are Funny too, Kyouya is very mysterious and always unpredictable…. *you never know what he does behind the Host Club’s member’s backs…. (O_O)

    I don’t care whether if Haruhi was a girl or boy, As long as the Comedy is still there, it’s funny…

    *but if Haruhi was a guy, they’d miss out a bit on the comedy…. eg: like the exposing outfits the Twins choose for Haruhi…. stuff like that… =)

    Comment by Joel Un — July 21, 2006 #

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